a.k.a God blesses whomever He chooses (not America)
(prompted by the 4th of July)
What do we as Christians mean when we say: we should be thankful that we live America? I'm afraid some intend that they would be ungrateful had they been born in a different country. What image does that portray to non-Americans? Could it not be perceived as an insult? We should be thankful no matter what country we live in.
Additionally, I question the idea that God blesses en masse i.e. God bless America. Wouldn't it more likely be on an individual basis? And His criteria remains largely unknown to us. Yes, He does bless in spiritual and physical avenues. But should we not have more concern for the spiritual blessings. Which does not seem to me the case for Americans.
There are some regards in which I would gladly claim to be un-American. There are several negative characteristics that I associate with being American: materialistic, surrounded by comfort and ease, and entertainment hungry. These and others seem to be a hindrance to growth as a Christian.
I also reject the notion that America was founded on Christian principles. There were SOME Christians among the founding fathers who instituted SOME Christian ideas. Since that was mingled with much humanist philosophy, we really don't have much to boast about. And we've digressed since then. Do we really think we could ride the coat tails from over two hundred years ago anyways?
Expected response: to humble Christians in America.
Ready, Set, Plant? A Request for Dialogue
13 years ago
Having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared for them a city. Hebrews 11:13-16
ReplyDeleteWhy should we trifle with our national identity, if as Christians our true citizenship lies in heaven?
Agreed. Our identity should be focused on so many other things: citizenship in God's kingdom, members of our blood family, our relationship with local believers and our neighbors, etc. Doesn't loyalty to country go against our call and opportunity to be peacemakers?
ReplyDeleteWhy do evangelical Americans seem to be the most fiercely patriotic (and are more likely to support war)?
I disagree with the breadth of your dismissal of Christian Principles in the founding of our nation. While I wouldn't begin to suggest that all of our founding fathers were devout, Christian men, when one compares the presuppositions from which our Constitution was framed with the truths of Scripture, one will find that there is a significant agreement. Truth is truth whether it is spoken by a prophet, poet, or politician (like that is going to happen.) I have always said that the law of gravity works for people who don't know it or understand it. So the Christian principles of honesty, integrity, personal responsibility, the value of the individual, the role of government in protecting the innocent, the expectation of a standard of morality, and more are all found in the beginnings of our nation. The fact that some of those founders didn't live by these values, or maybe didn't even embrace them, doesn't change the truth. Even the skeptics among the founders would have agreed that the United States was founded as a distinctively Christian nation.
ReplyDeleteFor Douglas,
ReplyDeleteThe first thing your comment brought to mind is how vague we might be when we talk of America's founding. One could start with Jamestown and Plymouth and extend it to the early republic. I will narrow down the scope to a single document (and its creation/ratification): the Constitution. The Constitution is the summation of American government, hence a good case study for "America's founding."
There is an incident that occured during the Philadelphia Convention that provides me with all the evidence I need to question the Constitution's commitment to Christian principles. 4-5 weeks into the debates, Benjamin Franklin says that since the progress has been painstaking they should begin to pray. Prayer seems like something a Christian WOULD do, and the more serious the task the more fervent the prayer. The establishment of a new system of government should warrant prayer (from Christians). But no, they end up arguing about the prayer and adjourn for the day without establishing prayer as part of the Convention's process. How can I trust the Constitution as upholding Christian principles when the people responsible for its creation failed to corporately include God in the process?
Here is a link to check this out. It's from Madison's notes on the Convention, on June 28th.
http://www.constitution.org/dfc/dfc_0628.htm
I guess my point is that the founder's personal commitment to Christianity does not alter the core values and principles found in the constitution. I think it is obvious that those men envisioned a country of moral and even religious people, and they assumed the religion would be Christianity in whatever flavor one desired. Even the Deists among the group would have had a distinctive Christian flavor to their values and beliefs. Whether I pray or not does not determine whether I AM a Christian, only how deep my relationship with Christ goes. And their corporate failure to include God does not automatically preclude their personal inclusion of God. I am persuaded that there were some, maybe even many, in that Convention that spent much time in personal prayer about the things they were doing. I would say that rather than looking at the process, check the product. Does the Constitution indeed have Biblical values at it core? It is based on a worldview that is in agreement with Christianity? If so, then does it matter how overtly spiritual the men were who drafted the document?
ReplyDeleteWhat would the US look like if the Philadelphia Convention was denied as the illegal function that it was at the time?
ReplyDeleteAlso, how weird that it took Ben Franklin - one of the less Christian-like founding fathers - to broach the idea of prayer in Philly?
ReplyDeleteFor Douglas,
ReplyDeleteI would think that yes, the Constitution would have SOME Christian values, but SOME opposite views. The Christian principles you listed honesty, integrity, etc. are indeed Christian, but not distinctively so. Other cultures and religions uphold those principles as well. So I think I might conclude that the Constitution is not distinctly Christian, but perhaps Modern, Western, Enlightment-ish, and Humanistic as well as Christian. Perhaps when I said: I also reject the notion that America was founded on Christian principles, I should add: solely founded. Regardless, I have no confidence in the notion that America today receives blessings (as a nation) from God because she adheres to Christian principles (as a nation). I know you stand with me on this (I wrote the post cause I was afraid others might not) that being: My faith is in God, not in America.